The Stuff of Dreams - Sam Torrance Interview

Q. Twenty eight years had passed since Europe last won the Ryder Cup – and then, just after 4pm on September 15, 1985, you hole that putt across the 18th green at The Belfry. A moment that defines your career?
A moment I'll never forget for as long as I draw breath. Sheer ecstasy. That's the only way to describe it. Without a doubt, the finest moment in my career, by a million miles. The ultimate for me. All my life I'd dreamed of holing the putt to win the Ryder Cup – you know, the way you stand on the putting green as a boy and stand over a putt saying ‘this to win the Open', or ‘this to win the Ryder Cup'. How well I remember Brian Huggett thinking he had holed the putt to win in 1969, when he rolled in a four-footer to tie Billy Casper at the last, the tears streaming down his face [Huggett had mis-interpreted a huge roar from the 17th, and believed Jacklin had beaten Nicklaus – of course, that match was still very much alive....] That's how much it means. It's one of your ultimate dreams. I actually had three putts to win that match with Andy North. But it was the putt at 17, a six-footer for a four to get back to all square, which allowed me to have the chance to win the point to win the Ryder Cup. I'd hit a poor drive at 17, and in laying up over the burn pulled it into wispy knee-high grass. From there I played a fabulous shot – and that putt was everything. I knew I had that putt to square my game and that the team needed the point.

Q. With all that's going on in a Ryder Cup – and the focus you have on your own match – are you able to be tuned in to the state of the match points-wise?
Oh yeah, I am. I've always been a board-watcher. I knew the situation. And let me tell you, everything was shaking over that putt on 17. That was the one that really mattered. I had three for it on the last. And I'm eternally grateful to Andy North for allowing me to have my moment. He could easily have come over and shaken hands and I would never have had the opportunity to roll in the putt. It was special. The fact it went it highlighted it.

Q. How much do you remember about that night?
Most of it, although I cannot recall whether or not there was a victory dinner. I think there was. Which none of the players really want, win or lose. You just want to be with your mates and savour the moment with a few drinks and let it go. Later that night we went down to the spa where there was a pool and pretty much everyone went in – fully clothed.We just had a ball. Went to bed at 5 or 6am. The next morning I met up with John O'Leary, one of my best mates on tour, and we brunched over five or six bottles of champagne. A driver then took me down the M1 and I stopped at a friend's house near Woburn, and we had another night of celebration. He had invited his mates over – all Ryder Cup fans – so you can imagine the carnage. The next morning I was up and off to Spain for the next tour event, back to the day job, and of course you then see all of your friends on tour, and that's probably the best part, going over it all again and again with your mates. At about 4am in a nightclub on the Wednesday I can remember telling the boys “That's it – I have to go.” Not because I needed to go to bed. I physically couldn't get anymore down. Made the cut, too, which was impressive.

Q. You made your Ryder Cup cup debut as a 28-year-old at Walton Heath in 1981. Some induction!
We were in total awe of the USA team that assembled under the captaincy of the great Dave Marr. Probably the finest team the US has ever produced. I think all but one of the players in that team had or have since won a major championship [for trivia fans, Bruce Lietzke is the odd one out].What a team. It was my first Ryder Cup – I'd waited 10 years to get into this thing. And even though they were world-class, you kid yourself that you never really know in matchplay, anything can happen over 18 holes.Well, we were lumped, but it was great fun. The other significant memory of that match was that it was Jack's [Nicklaus] last appearance as a player. He was unbeaten through the week, seeing off Eamonn Darcy 5&3 on Sunday.

Q. Is it true Lee Trevino said he was going to ‘beat the moustache off you' in the last-day singles?
It is. “Sammy, I'm going to beat that moustache off you” is exactly what he said when he saw the singles draw on the Saturday night. And after he duly did beat me, 3&2, I shaved off the moustache in the locker room in homage to the great man. But there's a story before that. On the Sunday morning, I've come out of the hotel where the two teams are staying and Trevino's waiting for the courtesy car to the course. I'm driving my own car, so I pulled over and offered him a lift. He jumps in and we turn out of the hotel car park but instead of turning right to the course I turn left. He leans over: “Sammy, where the hell are we going?”. I said ‘Lee, I thought we'd have a day out in London – what do you reckon, eh. Half a point each!'. Funnily enough when I made my debut on the US Senior Tour in Mexico, my first event on the Champions Tour, I came out of my hotel and who is standing there but Trevino. I asked him if he wanted a lift and he looked at me and said “Hell no! I remember you Sammy!” What a legend. As a footnote to the story, Walton Heath in '81 was Lee's last appearance as a player, and when I holed the winning putt in 1985 he was US captain and the first to congratulate me. He said if there's anyone he'd want to hole the putt it would be Sammy. That's the class of the guy. There will never be another player like him.

Q. Two years later and the two teams were more evenly balanced at PGA National?
The whole atmosphere had changed – and Europe can thank both Seve and Tony Jacklin for that [neither of whom played in the '81match, Seve being in dispute the European Tour over appearance money]. But when he did get involved again in 1983 – at Tony's personal request – it was like a lightning bolt through the team. And Tony made us all believe. That was the year of Seve's impossible 3-wood recovery from beneath the lip of a fairway bunker on 18 to snatch a half with Fuzzy Zoeller. It was a shot dreams are made of. But I have to say the pitch I played at 18 for a stone-cold birdie against Tom Kite was pretty special, too. Earned us a half. A lot of people don't realise it was Seve's third shot, not his second. And a shot he hit, by the way, with a Tony Penna 3-wood, which has barely enough loft to putt with. He was inspired. Even though we lost by a point, Seve was in our faces telling us this was a moral victory.We should have beaten them– but next time, next time! It was a bit like that passion he enjoyed on the 18th green at St Andrews the following summer. Fist pumping – we will win!

Q. The narrow defeat in ‘83 reinforced Jacklin's vision for Europe and the whole status of the team?
Tony changed everything. And I learned so much for my time as captain from Tony. A double major winner. He was our idol. He was a superstar and he expected everything to be first class – you were treated like kings and everyone was made to feel so special. He had so much respect from all of the players.When you look back through the history of the Ryder Cup, Europe owes a huge debt of gratitude to Tony.

Q. What was the most important aspect of his captaincy that struck a chord with you?
Making the players feel special. He and his [first] wife Vivien had a wonderful suite in the hotel on the course and they made sure all of the players treated it as their private refuge. He was just great on detail, too. My wife, Suzanne, and I prepared gifts for all of the players [in 2002], so that when they returned to their room every night they had a gift waiting there for them. And I mean a very special gift. More thought than you can imagine went into them. I love wallets (I love wallets and gadgets – I'm Inspector Gadget!), and I had bought one down in Madrid that I just loved, a soft leather wallet with passport holder, travel documents and so on. So we had them made up in a wonderful azure blue in luxurious soft leather. We gave each of the players a pair of beautiful silver goblets, and then there was the dinner set, the main gift which went on display on the Tuesday night. I had it presented in an oak case, a 12-piece setting with the names of all players engraved on the cutlery, captains and vice captains on the carving knives and forks and so on. It really was something. That was Suzanne and my gift to the US team, but there was one each for the European boys, too.

Q. The romance of the Ryder Cup extends beyond the golf – you proposed to Suzanne [Danielle] en route to the 1987 match at Muirfield Village?
I did.With a rubber band! There was a great atmosphere on board and I simply asked her what she would say if I asked her to marry me? And she said she would say yes! As simple as that. So there we are sitting on Concorde on the way to the States, and we're engaged! We were all over each other all week. It was almost embarrassing.We were like teenagers. I was infatuated. And Tony came out with the line of the week when he spoke to me about the team line up on the Thursday evening. “Sam, I'm resting you tomorrow. You're playing golf!”

Q. You played in the opening foursomes but then not again until the singles on Sunday. How tough is it as a player to be a part of a team and not be out there in action?
You know, I didn't feel one ounce of resentment at that decision. It was a testament to how well the team was playing and how good a captain Tony was. You're just so in there for the team. You're almost so relieved that the pressure is not on you, to be absolutely blunt. You want to be out there – it's harder watching.When you're dropped you can't help but feel you let the team down. But I didn't feel let the team down. in any way, shape or form. But you do feel the next time you get a chance to play you're going to win. And then the singles I played Larry Mize – the reigning Masters champion – and I managed to get a half. And I'm convinced it was at the conclusion of that match that I first experienced what were the on-set of the yips. Larry was in the hazard at 18, and perhaps 15 or 20minutes go by before he gets the decision sorted out and gets relief. Anyway, I've hit a perfect 3-wood off the tee and I've got a 5-iron in. The wait hasn't helped me, but then I hit the shot of my life, 15 feet below the hole. And if you remember watching the coverage that day you'll know how tough it was to stop a ball down that green. Then he goes and holes it down the slope for a five. And I just started shaking. One minute I'm thinking I have three putts to get the half, now I have to get down in two. The nerves were much worse than the 17th green at The Belfry in '85. I actually wished I was putting down the slope so that the ball would at least get to the hole. I honestly, when I hit the putt, had no idea if it was six feet short or 12 feet past. It was the worst feeling I have ever had in my entire life. And I somehow laid it dead. A gimmie. I'm convinced that moment was the start of the yips. The following season I was on the long putter.

Q. Was the team that travelled to Muirfield Village in 1987 perhaps the greatest European side ever assembled?
Quite possibly. And the standard of golf was just ridiculous. Just look at the quality of the '87 team– Seve, Olazábal, Faldo, Lyle,Woosie, Langer...it was as good as it ever gets. To beat the Americans for the first time in America on a course they play every year – and one captained by the legend that is Jack Nicklaus – was just unbelievable. That night was something else, too. I remember we spent an hour or so in the international supporters tent, which has since become something of a tradition, and witnessed some of the finest party scenes you've ever seen. Champagne was flowing. Faldo,Woosie, me, all standing on the tables singing and just loving it.

Q. After the tied match in ‘89 – courtesy of Christy O'Connor's 2-iron to 18 – the US turned the tables at Kiawah?
One of the greatest Ryder Cups ever played. And that ‘War on the Shore' thing was a total load of crap. You really get to know people at Ryder Cups and Corey Pavin is one of the finest guys in golf, an absolute gent. He wears a cap to support his troops in the wake of Desert Storm, the press took it the wrong way and the whole thing blows up. But it was a great Ryder Cup – sadly we lost it but that's what makes a match like this so great. You win some, you lose some. Bernhard Langer was remarkable, his resilience down the stretch. The up-and-down from the left of 16 to keep his game going, and then he holes again on 17 to take Hale Irwin down the 18th. It was heartbreaking coming off that last green.When you think of how few games made it to 18, and Bernhard gets there and finds a spike mark on his line. Should he have just hit it over the spike mark? He chose to just miss the spike mark– that's how he described it later – and that was the debate. Unbelievable drama. But a great win for the US, though I would never have given Irwin his 18-incher. He was done.

Q. Would you pick Langer for this year's side?
I would certainly be considering him. It obviously all depends on who makes it, as Monty's going to have a big headache come the end of August, particularly with Paul Casey and Padraig Harrington remaining in the states for the Fed Ex series. Sergio [Garcia] has just announced he's taking a few weeks off. Lee Westwood is out for six weeks with his calf injury. So, yes, when you see Langer win the British Seniors in some style at Carnoustie and then travel nine time zones to win the US Senior Open, beating Freddie Couples in his home town, you'd have to agree that he's in the form of his life. And there are few better Ryder Cup partners than Langer.

Q. On A Question of Sport in 2006 you famously took over nine minutes to deliberate “Who is the only golfer from Europe or the United States to have won two majors without making a Ryder Cup appearance” before stumbling on the answer...
....yeah, but I got there in the end!When I got home that night after filming I asked Suzanne the same question and she just said casually, “Oh, John Daly”. Just like that.

Q. It does seem incredible he's never played a Ryder Cup. Would you take John Daly?
No, not now. Not a million years. God no. Fifteen years ago, absolutely. In the days when he was in his peak the Americans were still dominant and it wouldn't have been easy making the side. And while everyone loves John Daly, and as sad as it is that he will not have played a Ryder Cup, he's not in the reckoning.

Q. When you reflect on your own Ryder Cup record over eight matches, are you satisfied?
Absolutely. I think that when you tot up the points I ended up about 50% in my singles, culminating in 2&1 a win over Loren Roberts in my last appearance as a player, at Oak Hill in 1995. That was special. The best I've ever played in a Ryder Cup and utterly delighted to have won for Bernard [Gallacher], a great friend of mine for over 40 years.We all wanted to win for Bernard. And he did it. In fact, at the age of 43, that was the best season of my career. But I really wanted more and I was bitterly disappointed not to make Seve's side for the match at Valderamma in 1997. I even gave up drink for 18 months to get in the side. Never had a drop and worked my balls off to make the team. Didn't come close. So what a waste of a year that was! Actually, I gave up just a couple of years ago for another 12 months. It's good for you.

Q. Talking of Seve, his impact on the Ryder Cup is more poignant this year than ever.
For Europe, Seve epitomised the Ryder Cup. He was simply inspirational and so, so wanted to help you. He was someone lesser players could go up to, talk to and try to take some of that magic. Seve's wedge play around the green was second to none. He never had a lob-wedge; doesn't even believe they should be allowed (‘56, nomass, nomass!') and he was so versatile with his 56 degree sand-iron it was frightening. But his team spirit, lifting you up, he was fantastic. Prior to Seve coming on tour I knew his brothers very well, particularly Manuel. And he would say tome, “Sam, you wait to see my brother, he's fantastic!” And, of course, he was. So out he comes a year or so later – '77, after that finish at Birkdale in '76 – this enigmatic, handsome, dark Spaniard. And he's on the range one day and he farts, and the smell is awful. I've always got on very well with the Spanish players and I'm giving Seve some stick and he says, “Hey, I eat food, not flowers.”

Q. Of all the captains you played under, what have you learned most that helped you as captain?
Tony was inspirational. He changed everything, and so every subsequent captain benefited. Bernard Gallacher probably taught me organisation and patience. Bernard handles difficult situations very well. He's very composed. Remember when he was captain against Lanny Wadkins in 1995, and Lanny stumbled with his speech. Bernard was in there like a flash, he handled it beautifully and settled Lanny. He sorted it out for him, and that was class. That's Bernard. I was vice to Mark James in 1999 and I probably learned more that year than I did playing in eight Ryder Cups. I found out how cosetted the players are – everything is done for them. You wouldn't believe it. As a player, whatever you want is done. I actually thought Jesse did a fantastic job to get a four point lead going in to the Sunday singles, huge. But it didn't turn out the way we wanted. Golf is golf.

Q. Give me an example of being ‘cosetted'?
All sorts of things.What they all eat is a task in itself. And it all needs taking care of. The individual requests for different meals during the day are quite startling .Whatever the players want is sourced, packed and ready for them on the course or at the hotel. I remember Miguel Angel Jiménez requesting the finest olive oil to be on the table at breakfast. He would have a cereal bowl and pour it in there until it was two inches deep, and he'd sit there and dunk French bread in it. Very healthy, actually.

Q. When did you learn you would be captain?
Around the end of 1997 Jesse [James] and I were informed that we would be the next two captains. It was sort of left to us to sort out who would take which year. I won the French Open in '98 and I said to Jesse that I really thought I could make the team. So we decided he would do it in '99 and I would do it in 2001. As it turned out, he was closer to qualifying in '99 than I was.

Q. With the events of 9/11 you had a little longer than anticipated to prepare?
I can remember driving in to Sunningdale Golf Club and seeing it on the TV. Just gob-smacked. I didn't even think about the Ryder Cup. Then it came to light that the match would be affected. I was actually delighted it was going to be played the next year. It could have been cancelled altogether. Every other Ryder Cup captain in history has had three or four weeks after the team has been announced. I had over a year. And I made the most of it. I used that time to try to put the Ryder Cup in perspective after the terrible events in New York. And also after the way the match had got out of hand at Brookline in 1999.

Q. What key elements of your captaincy did you want to impress on the players?
I wanted them to be comfortable. I was very fortunate on Sunday, singles day. The walk from the putting green to the 1st tee is one of the most breathtaking walks a professional golfer will ever experience. There is nothing like it in golf. And I got to do that 12 times on the Sunday. It was unbelievable. I think I said the same thing to each player – like you really have to say anything – that this was going to be a day to remember for the rest of your life, so enjoy it. But no one needed lifting by that time. They are all as pumped as they will ever be. Monty's opening tee shot was just extraordinary. A 3-wood, 330 yards, like a bullet. It was never anything but perfection.

Q. Under your captaincy Monty produced his best ever Ryder Cup performance – five points out of five and never down in a match. Did you have a part to play in that?
Nothing. Monty enjoys the Ryder Cup as much as I do. He knows exactly what it means and he revels in it. His singles record is incredible – unbeaten in eight matches. That's nearly as impressive as his eight Order of Merits. But it was the manner in which he played that was so impressive. He finds a higher gear and is near unbeatable.

Q. Tell me how you came to meet Professor David Purdie.
It was the Centenary Dinner at Sunningdale in 2000, and two things happened that night that had a huge influence on my captaincy. One was the speech made by Professor Purdie, which was just magnificent. I had never heard a quality speech like that before. It was brilliant. And I needed help on that front, because the only aspect of the captaincy I was terrified about was the speech-making. I'm not a natural orator. I'm more a heckler. I can be witty. But speaking and doing it well is tough. So I hooked up with David and he helped me. The other thing that happened that night was a comment made by Tony Holland, a member of Sunningdale, who sat next to me – and I was captain at the time, remember – and as we were talking about the singles order he said you can't go far wrong if you put your best player out first, and your worst player out last. And you know a couple of years after the match I found in my desk a list of the singles order I had written after that dinner, and it was exactly the same as the team who played in the match in 2002. That was pretty amazing.

Q. Readers may be aware that the same David Purdie writes a regular column on behalf of the Major. How did he go about helping you?
I introduced myself that evening – ‘Hi, Sam Torrance, Ryder Cup captain, and I need your help'.We're both Scotsman, so we understood each other. And he says, “Sam, I'd love to help you, but I'm an amateur!” And he was fantastic. I gave him my words, which he re-worked with typical eloquence. He taught me how to deliver the speech, which was fascinating. In the last week prior to the match I even had a replica of the lectern that would be used at The Belfry delivered to my house so I could stand and rehearse in front of it, which I did for probably two hours a day. I took a small tape recorder, and locked the door. I had four speeches to make. And I just kept going over and over them. I memorised them. But I took little cards to remind me. You know, I wish I had put into my career as much as I did into delivering those speeches. Because it worked. And it's little things like that that make the difference. These things count. Everything during the week is competitive. And I think I nailed Curtis [Strange] every time. He may have just got me with the closing speech. But by then I was holding the Cup.

Q. You also talked to Sir Alex Ferguson about how to manage a team of individual players?
I did. I had a long chat with Sir Alex. He's a good friend. I've known him years. In my opinion he's the greatest football manager there's ever been. I'm a Man United fan. United and Celtic, my Scottish team. Anyway, we were on the phone for about 40 minutes. I was curious as to how he went about gelling a team of individuals. The best information he gave me was that there are no superstars in a team. Each man is equal to another. The one thing with every great Ryder Cup team is leaving the egos at the door. The most important thing is lifting up the lesser players to make them feel as important as the guys who are the leaders. Seve did that brilliantly with Paul Way back in 1983 and again with David Gilford in 1995.

Q. What special qualities will Monty bring as captain?
His heart is in it. He loves the Ryder Cup as much as anything, which he has shown in his own performances over the years. He's meticulous. He won't leave a stone unturned. He has the respect of the players. He'll set up the course to suit the Europeans. And I think he will handle the press beautifully, which these days is a huge part of it. At least I think he will.

Q. He has a knack of sometimes putting his foot in it.
Yes, he has a certain charm, shall we say. But he does like the spotlight. So I think he'll be at ease in that regard. Even for a player as famous as Monty, being Ryder Cup captain takes you to a higher plane altogether, a huge worldwide audience. But I think he will handle it very well. Potential weaknesses? The only one I can see is the issue of wild cards, given the quality of players needing one. Which may also be his biggest asset.

Q. Is there such strength that it's almost impossible to get his selections wrong?
No, the three selections he makes will be vital. He's only got three captain's picks. As we sit here today, here goes: Casey, Harrington, Stenson, Justin Rose – not in. I think with Sergio's problems, talking at the moment of giving up for a time and performing poorly at the USPGA, he has taken himself out of the reckoning. He's given it up. Which is disheartening for him, because he was always the life and soul of the Ryder Cup. Would he have done so if Olazábal was captain? Sergio's career is more important than the Ryder Cup. He's a tremendous player, he just needs to sort his head out.

Q. Is the Ryder Cup a lesser event if Tiger doesn't play?
No, not at all. No one is bigger than the game and certainly no one is bigger than the Ryder Cup.We all know about the problems he's going through, but I feel honoured and blessed to have witnessed his career. I think he's the greatest player who has ever lived. Seve hit that 3-wood in the Ryder Cup – well, Tiger hits those shots week-in, week-out. Even if he takes another year to get himself sorted I still think we will see Tiger back to his best and if I were a betting man– which I am– I'd say he will beat Jack's record.

Q. Was there ever any chance of you staying on as captain for the 2004 match?
God no. To me the most important factor of the captaincy is the right man, which tome is someone who is still on tour, maybe towards the twilight of his career, but still out there and in touch with his team. So you can create something. I had such a great bond with all my team, largely because I was still out there playing with them. This is the hurdle Sandy [Lyle] cannot overcome, which is a shame. Sadly, not everyone who should be captain gets it – Peter Alliss never got the job and he played in eight matches.

Q. Do you think the Americans get the Ryder Cup the way we do?
We all know that Tim Finchem's baby is the Presidents Cup – but the Americans love the Ryder Cup and they love to win it as much as we do. Ask Corey Pavin. I think the Ryder Cup is an exceptional sporting event and if you speak to the players they will tell you the same. It's a showcase event for the game, and I believe it will continue to get even bigger and better, which is good for golf. And although we have a very strong team this year, I would never underestimate the Americans. As ever, it's going to be a fascinating three days.

Readers Questions

Q. In an interview with John Huggan in 2009, you said you would certainly accept if asked to be one of Monty's vice captains.What is your reaction to McGinley, Clarke and Bjorn?
(asks Colin Banwell, Tehidy Golf Club, via email)
Three excellent choices. Quite diverse, lots of respect and three distinct possible future captains. I would have had four – irrelevant who the fourth might be – the reason being that on Friday and Saturday you have four matches on the course at any one time and I wanted my lieutenants out there watching each of those matches, reporting tome on what's going on.

Q. Throughout your hugely successful career, what helps you keep your feet on the ground?
(asks AJ Taylor, via email)
Life. The ups and downs of life. Just as there are ups and downs in golf. If there were not the humps and bumps on the road of life, it probably wouldn't lead anywhere.And I think that's great, it's never always rosy and I think that's right.Wins only come along now and again and you have to endure the sensation of losing to properly appreciate wining.

Q.What are your views on caddies lining up players putts and shots?
(asks Alex Bell, via email)
No problem at all. A player and his caddie are a team, a caddie is a huge part. I have no objection. It's available to everyone, so why is there a problem?

Q.What ambitions do you have left in the game?
(asks Adrian Mackenzie, via email)
To win a major – a senior major.